Apple Vision Pro's launch

[Djonko]

@XRC

Pass through worse than expected although seeing hands and arms was good with decent masking

I guess I understand this quote, the PT is still obviously a camera feed, a synthetic image. But then again, there’s also nothing else that comes close to this quality (havent tried the VR1 yet though), it’s still quite an improvement over the Quest 3. But yeah, even higher resolution cams could definitely improve things.

@XRC

but I’ve been spoiled by using high resolution PCVR

The resolution itself you can get elsewhere indeed. But what you can’t get elsewhere is that resolution in combination with those OLED colors and the completely geometrically stable image. At least I don’t know of any other headset that has that. Only pancake lenses can get that and I don’t know of a headset with pancake + oled + ultra high resolution. I guess the BSB might come the closest but still there the resolution lacks.

@XRC

Lenses good but noticeably smaller fov especially vertical quite cramped.

The stock FoV is definitely too small. The problem is that they don’t allow your eyes to get close to the lenses. If you mod the headset, you get quest 3 like FoV. However they’ll keep showing a message everytime you put on the headset that your eyes are too close to the panels and that might result in eye injury in case you fall. My guess thus is that it’s mostly a legal thing, that they’re afraid of lawsuits. Which is too bad because anyone who buys this headset will definitely want to mod it to get that bigger FoV.

[Atmos]

@Djonko

The resolution itself you can get elsewhere indeed. But what you can’t get elsewhere is that resolution in combination with those OLED colors and the completely geometrically stable image. At least I don’t know of any other headset that has that.

I would imagine Sonys new headset would be the only one I can think of but the wait is on till we get a consumer version. Its one headset that could tie PCVR, Standalone and PS5 together making it a must own headset.

[twack3r]

@XRC

Eye tracking generally good but a bit imprecise at times the hand tracking quite good but feels like low frame rate not as performant as ultraleap.

I didn’t get to try the moon environment but the environment by water was very impressive and they used this to demonstrate the digital crown.

Thanks for sharing your impressions!

Just as an FYI: Vision OS2.0 which is currently in beta has improved eye-tracking and has increased handtracking poll rate from 30fps to 90fps. It’s still not a Beat Saber highscore device but the reults brings at at least on par with ultraleap.

[XRC]

That makes sense about the hand tracking at 30fps, would like to try again once improvement are made.

Overall a good experience and I can see someone unfamiliar with XR having their mind blown by the quality of the overall offering

[Atmos]

Are you Swevivers twin brother?

[XRC]

Maybe the English brother

[Heliosurge]

Just to confirm you don’t have a barcode on the back of your head?

Hitman 47.

[XRC]

Let me check…

[Djonko]

There are tons of aftermarket straps now for the AVP. The one that MRTV is hyping is this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY25S7MN/
I just ordered this one: Amazon.com: Eslick Elite Head Strap Compatible with Apple Vision Pro, Adjustable Strap Reduce Facial Pressure and Balance Weight, Enhanced Comfort and Gaming Immersion Strap for Vision Pro Accessories : Video Games
Hopefully this can be used without the stock facial interface, as to get my eyes closer to the panels (to get the increased fov), which is the whole reason I’ve bought it. Will be about 3 weeks before I can try it though, just left for a holiday.

[Djonko]

Finally got to try the strap and it’s pretty nice! I can now wear the headset without the facial interface. I can now get the panels even closer to my face and the FoV is now pretty much on par with the Quest 3 so that’s really nice. It’s not perfect though, the one hyped by MRTV might be better, not sure, but I’ll stick with this one, pretty happy with it.

[Djonko]

WHAAAAT !?!?! LOL, the FoV is the AVP now actually is even wider than the Quest 3!! Wow. I actually already thought “damn this FoV now is good, it actually looks wider than the Quest 3” but I couldnt believe it since I had seen measurements from others (I think it was Bradley who posted them) who measured a smaller rendered FoV than the quest 3. Not sure where he got that, but I just tested it with both a photo and video and I can actually see more of the photo and video (left to right) on the AVP than the quest!! Even if I totally remove the facial interface from the Quest 3, I can still see more horizontally on the AVP !!

Damn this strap really is a must buy for anyone with an AVP!

EDIT It’s actually substantially bigger now, I’d say 5-10 degrees, to the extend that when I go back to my quest 3, I actually miss the AVP FoV. Wow … I really didnt think this was possible.

[Atmos]

Sounds good. What is the actual measured FOV?

[Heliosurge]

With ALVR could maybe @risa2000 testhmd pull the FoV render values?

[Djonko]

Nice idea, not sure why I didnt think about that earlier it yields:

  "fov_tot": {
    "fov_hor": 119.99997520374455,
    "fov_ver": 94.99991894758372,
    "fov_diag": 127.81419860308162,
    "overlap": 90.00000000000001
  },

Which sounds about correct. I do feel the vertical FoV is a bit limited compared to the horizontal FoV and like said the horizontal FoV is substantially bigger than the Quest3’s.

Will see if I can get it going with ROV tool too …

[Heliosurge]

That is interesting. Does the hfov feel like 120ish? If so that is very impressive.

[risa2000]

This is an interesting twist Could you send me the full JSON?
I wonder how ALVR translates the AVP geometry to the SteamVR client interface - probably will need to look into ALVR code .

[Axacuatl]

@Djonko

Not sure where he got that, but I just tested it with both a photo and video and I can actually see more of the photo and video (left to right) on the AVP than the quest!!

I appreciate that this will be correct for what you see - but does that translate into having truly a wider angle measured from the eye, or could there be some condensing/squeezing the picture going on? I am not sure how even the tools used to measure this would capture this element, if it is based on the OS of the headset.

I guess the safest way to measure that would be to shove toothpicks up your face and mark the extreme left & right positions below your eyes with a pen and then compare the markings from AVP and Quest 3…

[Djonko]

Sure:

{
  "misc": {
    "time": "2024-08-19 18:59:56",
    "hmdq_ver": "2.1.8",
    "log_ver": 5,
    "os_ver": "10.0.19041.4780"
  },
  "openvr": {
    "rt_path": "C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Steam\\steamapps\\common\\SteamVR",
    "rt_ver": "2.8.3",
    "devices": [
      [
        0,
        1
      ],
      [
        1,
        2
      ],
      [
        2,
        2
      ]
    ],
    "properties": {
      "0": {
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        "Prop_ModelNumber_String": "Miramar",
        "Prop_SerialNumber_String": "anon@8F84BDF3D176CA3F694550C3",
        "Prop_RenderModelName_String": "generic_hmd",
        "Prop_ManufacturerName_String": "Oculus",
        "Prop_DeviceIsCharging_Bool": false,
        "Prop_DeviceBatteryPercentage_Float": 0.8999999761581421,
        "Prop_ContainsProximitySensor_Bool": true,
        "Prop_DeviceProvidesBatteryStatus_Bool": true,
        "Prop_DeviceClass_Int32": 1,
        "Prop_DriverVersion_String": "1.55.0",
        "Prop_ParentDriver_Uint64": 8589934592,
        "Prop_RegisteredDeviceType_String": "anon@EB17DEF0AA1157399FAB675B",
        "Prop_ActualTrackingSystemName_String": "alvr_server",
        "Prop_ReportsTimeSinceVSync_Bool": true,
        "Prop_SecondsFromVsyncToPhotons_Float": 0.011111111380159855,
        "Prop_DisplayFrequency_Float": 90.0,
        "Prop_UserIpdMeters_Float": 0.06300000101327896,
        "Prop_CurrentUniverseId_Uint64": 2,
        "Prop_IsOnDesktop_Bool": false,
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        "Prop_DriverDirectModeSendsVsyncEvents_Bool": false,
        "Prop_Hmd_SupportsGpuBusMonitoring_Bool": true,
        "Prop_Audio_DefaultPlaybackDeviceId_String": "{0.0.0.00000000}.{ae1f90a8-4597-48ab-baf9-f1ea33224889}",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceOff_String": "{oculus}/icons/quest_headset_off.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceSearching_String": "{oculus}/icons/quest_headset_searching.gif",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceSearchingAlert_String": "{oculus}/icons/quest_headset_alert_searching.gif",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceReady_String": "{oculus}/icons/quest_headset_ready.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceReadyAlert_String": "{oculus}/icons/quest_headset_ready_alert.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceNotReady_String": "{system}/icons/headset_status_error.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceStandby_String": "{oculus}/icons/quest_headset_standby.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceAlertLow_String": "",
        "Prop_HasDisplayComponent_Bool": true,
        "Prop_HasCameraComponent_Bool": false,
        "Prop_HasDriverDirectModeComponent_Bool": true,
        "Prop_HasVirtualDisplayComponent_Bool": false,
        "Prop_ControllerType_String": "oculus_hmd",
        "Prop_ControllerHandSelectionPriority_Int32": 0
      },
      "1": {
        "Prop_TrackingSystemName_String": "oculus",
        "Prop_ModelNumber_String": "Miramar (Left Controller)",
        "Prop_SerialNumber_String": "anon@0CAD3A56A851850ADF9FD32C",
        "Prop_RenderModelName_String": "oculus_quest2_controller_left",
        "Prop_ManufacturerName_String": "Oculus",
        "Prop_DeviceProvidesBatteryStatus_Bool": false,
        "Prop_DeviceClass_Int32": 2,
        "Prop_ParentDriver_Uint64": 8589934592,
        "Prop_RegisteredDeviceType_String": "anon@E78D079CCBD2C62CA407C9D0",
        "Prop_InputProfilePath_String": "{oculus}/input/touch_profile.json",
        "Prop_ActualTrackingSystemName_String": "alvr_server",
        "Prop_AttachedDeviceId_String": "1WMHH000X00000_Controller_Left",
        "Prop_SupportedButtons_Uint64": 30064771207,
        "Prop_Axis0Type_Int32": 2,
        "Prop_Axis1Type_Int32": 3,
        "Prop_Axis2Type_Int32": 3,
        "Prop_ControllerRoleHint_Int32": 1,
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceOff_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_left_controller_off.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceSearching_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_left_controller_searching.gif",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceSearchingAlert_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_left_controller_searching_alert.gif",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceReady_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_left_controller_ready.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceReadyAlert_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_left_controller_ready_alert.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceNotReady_String": "{system}/icons/controller_status_error.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceStandby_String": "{system}/icons/controller_status_standby.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceAlertLow_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_left_controller_ready_low.png",
        "Prop_ControllerType_String": "oculus_touch",
        "Prop_ControllerHandSelectionPriority_Int32": -1
      },
      "2": {
        "Prop_TrackingSystemName_String": "oculus",
        "Prop_ModelNumber_String": "Miramar (Right Controller)",
        "Prop_SerialNumber_String": "anon@1832344195647F6CB45BD2A8",
        "Prop_RenderModelName_String": "oculus_quest2_controller_right",
        "Prop_ManufacturerName_String": "Oculus",
        "Prop_DeviceProvidesBatteryStatus_Bool": false,
        "Prop_DeviceClass_Int32": 2,
        "Prop_ParentDriver_Uint64": 8589934592,
        "Prop_RegisteredDeviceType_String": "anon@FA8F5A7A86D3833BA8A77B33",
        "Prop_InputProfilePath_String": "{oculus}/input/touch_profile.json",
        "Prop_ActualTrackingSystemName_String": "alvr_server",
        "Prop_AttachedDeviceId_String": "1WMHH000X00000_Controller_Right",
        "Prop_SupportedButtons_Uint64": 30064771207,
        "Prop_Axis0Type_Int32": 2,
        "Prop_Axis1Type_Int32": 3,
        "Prop_Axis2Type_Int32": 3,
        "Prop_ControllerRoleHint_Int32": 2,
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceOff_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_right_controller_off.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceSearching_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_right_controller_searching.gif",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceSearchingAlert_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_right_controller_searching_alert.gif",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceReady_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_right_controller_ready.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceReadyAlert_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_right_controller_ready_alert.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceNotReady_String": "{system}/icons/controller_status_error.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceStandby_String": "{system}/icons/controller_status_standby.png",
        "Prop_NamedIconPathDeviceAlertLow_String": "{oculus}/icons/rifts_right_controller_ready_low.png",
        "Prop_ControllerType_String": "oculus_touch",
        "Prop_ControllerHandSelectionPriority_Int32": -1
      }
    },
    "geometry": {
      "rec_rts": [
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        2496
      ],
      "raw_eye": {
        "Left": {
          "tan_left": -1.7320499420166016,
          "tan_right": 1.0,
          "tan_bottom": -1.191750168800354,
          "tan_top": 1.0,
          "aspect": 1.2465152740478516
        },
        "Right": {
          "tan_left": -1.0,
          "tan_right": 1.7320499420166016,
          "tan_bottom": -1.191750168800354,
          "tan_top": 1.0,
          "aspect": 1.2465152740478516
        }
      },
      "eye2head": {
        "Left": [
          [
            1.0,
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            -0.03526968136429787
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          [
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        "Right": [
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            0.03526968136429787
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          [
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      "view_geom": {
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        "right_rot": 0.0,
        "ipd": 0.07053936272859573
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      "fov_head": {
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          "deg_right": 45.00000000000001,
          "deg_bottom": -49.99991894758371,
          "deg_top": 45.00000000000001,
          "deg_hor": 104.99998760187228,
          "deg_ver": 94.99991894758372
        },
        "Right": {
          "fov_pts": [
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              -1.191750168800354,
              -1.0
            ],
            [
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              -1.191750168800354,
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              1.0,
              -1.0
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            [
              0.0,
              1.0,
              -1.0
            ],
            [
              -1.0,
              1.0,
              -1.0
            ],
            [
              -1.0,
              0.0,
              -1.0
            ]
          ],
          "deg_left": -45.00000000000001,
          "deg_right": 59.99998760187228,
          "deg_bottom": -49.99991894758371,
          "deg_top": 45.00000000000001,
          "deg_hor": 104.99998760187228,
          "deg_ver": 94.99991894758372
        }
      },
      "fov_tot": {
        "fov_hor": 119.99997520374455,
        "fov_ver": 94.99991894758372,
        "fov_diag": 127.81419860308162,
        "overlap": 90.00000000000001
      },
      "ham_mesh": {
        "Left": null,
        "Right": null
      }
    }
  },
  "oculus": {
    "error@": "Unable to connect to service: NotFound: Server endpoint not found"
  },
  "checksum": "EBB5BE15767CF9966A3C20676D6C11DC"
}

[Djonko]

@Axacuatl

I appreciate that this will be correct for what you see - but does that translate into having truly a wider angle measured from the eye, or could there be some condensing/squeezing the picture going on? I am not sure how even the tools used to measure this would capture this element, if it is based on the OS of the headset.

No, it really works well, nothing weird going on, although I do see some slight distortion at the very edge of the panel. But it’s really only there so you won’t see it unless you actively look for it. But other than that everything looks 100% correct.

[risa2000]

Thanks! I am currently AFK, will look into it as soon as possible.