Moore's Law: Why Did You Die so Early - Not Pimax's Fault

This is a post to share my frustration with the universe right now. It is directly related to the 8K X though.

When I started to game on PCs, possibly before you were born, performance was doubling every year. Then they invented graphics 3D cards and performance was doubling every 6 months… for a while. These days are gone and have been for more than a decade.

I finally received my “Summer Pre-Ordered” Reverb G2 mid-December. The goal was to replace my 5K+ for racing (Mostly AMS 2 now). I was amazed by the picture quality and could not return to the image quality level of the 5K+. But, I was really having a hard time accepting the reduced “horse blinder” FOV, even with the FOV mod (that mod made a huge difference in my case). I race at 60Hz to get the best visuals, steady 60fps and no Smart Smoothing/Re-projection. I can’t stand re-projection due to the blurriness, jitters, shimmering it introduces.

All that to say that I decided to order an 8K X as soon as it became available on Amazon.ca last week. The HMD works flawlessly and I’m used to all the settings that you can play with to improve performance and image quality on a Pimax. I also read all the 8K X specifics.

The problem:
To be able to keep a steady 60fps with the 8K X, I have to reduce the SS (Super-sampling - Under-sampling actually) to a point where the image quality is much lower than with the G2. Cars that are up-close are looking “ok” but as soon as they are a few car lengths away, they become quite blurry. And in the distance, the difference between the G2 and 8K X (at this constrained resolution) is huge.

This is all because Moore’s Law is dead. I can’t even hope for a short term upgrade because I’m already running latest GPU generation (RTX 3080) and the CPU (3900X) is pretty much throttling at 15% (Main core at 65%).

I’m torn between fantastic FOV and fantastic image quality. In the last week, every time I’ve raced I missed one or the other.

Pretty frustrated at the universe right now… :crazy_face:

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You might want to try Small FOV on your 8KX.

The FOV will still be larger than the G2 and you should be able to increase the supersampling. (Just pretend you are wearing a helmet, which cuts of some of the view.) I only have a 2080 and I’ve found this to be a reasonable balance of FOV vs quality.

You might also want to try enabling Smart Smoothing in PiTool.

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Thank you for the suggestions.

I tried Small FOV once last Wednesday but did not notice much of a performance difference. I remember noticing that the effective resolution was only slightly lower than at Normal. I’ll try it again because the difference was noticeable with the 5K+.

I did try Smart Smoothing again at 75Hz (37Hz) but I just can’t stand it. The track and scenery are ok but the other cars “vibrate” and they are more blurry.

By the way, I did read your great post https://community.openmr.ai/t/tips-for-getting-the-most-out-of-your-8kx/32487. Thanks for that. :slight_smile:

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AMS2 needs PP they have broken the compatibility in the last pitool for this game to be able to use it without PP launched with pitool, I hope they solve it soon.

If you want to use AMS2 without PP, you need pitool 263 (264 gave some problems I think)

to be clear here, this will give you a much higher quality and a yield of +30%

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So, to make this happen, you have to start the game from PiTool 263?
Does the game need to be launched in Oculus mode or will it still launch with Steam VR?

I tried it a long time ago with the 5K+ and it was launching in Oculus mode. I was not getting any performance gain by doing this at the time.

I’ll try it out. I kept all PiTool versions since 121. Ah… The good old days of pre-144 when pressing the MSI Afterburner Default button was giving me better GPU utilization. GPU utilization is definitely something they fixed. :slight_smile:

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The new eye tracker @ 100hz might improve things hopefully.

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The problem is bandwidth I think. We need dp 2.0.

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This doesn’t make the CPU and GPU any faster either. :wink:

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Thank you for suggesting this! My initial testing tonight is quite promising. I’m able to get much better visuals (RQ at 0.75) and steady 60fps at Kansai with overcast sky. That’s a demanding combination.

Like you wrote, let’s hope they fix it in the next PiTool because colors were more vibrant with the backlit set at 91.

Would you or anyone know how to get an fps meter that is visible in VR with this mode (Oculus)? The Oculus tools don’t seem to work.

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@PimaxQuorra @anon57422158 they can report the problem to the pitool team so that it is fix it in the next version?

AMS2 is Automobilista 2

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The Oculus mode being broken has been forwarded to @Alex.liu that it was working well in pitool 260 and has been broken in newer versions.

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Added a reminder: :slight_smile:

https://community.openmr.ai/t/please-fix-oculus-mode-for-automobilista-2-and-project-cars-2-ams2-pc2/34962

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moore’s law isn’t dead yet, we have mcm gpus incoming in 2 generations from now, with a data scheduler which aims to improve performance by 80-100% compared to monolithic GPUs, by intelligently organising information and sending information to specific cores to reduce processing latency and increase performance. It’s meant to be 80-100% more efficient than Lovelace (next gen nvidia architecture)
currently MCM architecture isn’t possible without such a scheduler, as sending information to different cores can increase latency which decreases end performance, in circumstances where information and a process in one core relies on and has to call on information and a process in the other core. That’s what the data scheduler is supposed to fix. Currently information is just thrown into the processor core in a random manner with no organisation.

Also next generation of nvidia GPUs will be a huge leap in performance and efficiency given they’re on TSMC 5nm, which could easily be a 80%-2x performance improvement over the current ampere gen.
Samsung 8nm is equiv. to 12nm TSMC, so it’s a huge node shrink.

Even though it’s just rumour that Lovelace is on Tsmc 5nm, it would have to be in order to compete with AMD since AMD is reportedly releasing a MCM architecture this year or next year for their next gen of GPUs. NVIDIA has to do a massive node shrink to TSMC 5nm to compete with AMD’s MCM GPU.
That probably means that Ampere will be available at RRP when Lovelace comes out, as Lovelace on TSMC is likely to be Turing prices or higher.

Lovelace will reportedly according to leaks have 80% more cuda cores than ampere, at 18k over amperes 10k cuda cores, which makes sense given how much of a node shrink it is they can fit almost double the amount of CUDA cores.

An nvidia equivalent infinity fabric may be coming too, which would increase performance and allow Nvidia to use lower bus size for the GPU and achieve the same performance.

GPUs which have up to a 512 bit bus could be released as well, which will have so much more bandwidth when combined with an infinity fabric type architecture

Then there’s GDDR6X/GDDR7, for AMD and nvidia

A refresh of the MCM hopper GPU could happen, which requires 3-4 power sockets to get that extra bit of performance out.

In addition there’s DDR5 ram around the corner which should be able to hit over 6000mhz-7000mhz, if not when it first comes out in the next couple years, faster ram means less frame drops and stuttering when information has to be called from ram and not L1, L2 or l3 cache

And there’s also PCI express 5.0 coming

for extra headset frames display port 2.0 can put out about 135 fps on Pimax’s large or normal fov.
display port 2.0 will probably get saturated by PCI express 5.0, so that means we’ll probably be seeing a display port 3.0 eventually with even more bandwidth.

I think the next few years of tech is looking bright, but availability is going to be zilch because of scalping bots instantly buying everything.

So here’s what I expect in advancements in the next few years

  • (Next 2 yrs) Lovelace 5nm > 80% performance increase over ampere (with tsmc 12nm/samsung 8nm node shrink to TSMC 5nm)

  • (Next 4 yrs) Hopper 4/3nm > 2-2.5x performance increase over Lovelace (with MCM data scheduler and node shrink from 5nm to 4-3nm)

  • (Next 4-6 yrs) Infinity fabric in NVIDIA architecture 50%-2x increase over hopper

  • (Next 6-8 yrs) 512 bit bus on NVIDIA architecture with infinity fabric> extra card bandwidth means extra performance - possibly a 60-70% increase over 300 bit bus architectures currently used.

  • (Next 6-8 yrs) overclocked, overpowered 3nm MCM refreshes similar to ampere.

Of course those GPUs will probably have to be paired with PCIe 5.0 motherboards and DDR6 at 6/7000mhz in order to not be bottlenecked. PCIe 5.0 will probably become important when we have GPUs with 512 bit buses.

When we see software and games coded to take advantage of more cores and AMD architecture (when more cores become the lowest common denominator in hardware over the current 4-6 cores) then CPU bottlenecking shouldn’t be an issue in future games which can take advantage of more than 4 cores.

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What a great post. Thank you!

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Thank-you for that glimpse at the future!

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