Is it best to fix pitool at a certain resolution (like 1.75 or 2.0) and change steamvr SS, or the opposite..? or are they interchangeable?

Wanna know as much before getting my 5k+.

does it make it a difference which is set higher? or can i just put EITHER ONE at the full setting, while the other one i change it?

What’s the best thing to do? i’m thinking of just putting pitool at 2.0 ALWAYS, and just change steamvr ss for different games. good solution? or is it better to have steamvr ss at a fixed value and only mess with Pitool…? and at what point do i get diminishing returns? (aka no more resolution improvement after that point, only decreases performance and load on gpu without any benefits)

5 Likes

I am having PiTool rendering quality set at 1.0 and SteamVR SS manual override at 80-100%. For some reason it seems that OpenVR (VR engine behind SteamVR) does not advertise higher render target resolutions to the applications than 4096x3499 (Normal FOV) even if SteamVR UI shows higher res, so going beyond that in SteamVR seems to be useless.

What is important to know is that the res displayed in SteamVR UI (and advertised by OpenVR to the app) is minimum recommended render target resolution so the application is free to render at higher res. Which means, if you need to set up your app to render at higher res, you can do it, if the app has built in support for VR supersampling (or normal supersampling, but this probably will be less efficient).

From my observation I assume that “rendering quality” in PiTool changes the virtual size the HMD advertises to OpenVR, so if you crank it up in PiTool, SteamVR will correspondingly suggest lower supersampling in automatic mode, because it will just balance the overall bandwidth needed for rendering at this res.

Good to know is that the deciding factor for the image quality coming from the application is the resolution which is advertised by OpenVR to the app and consequently (based on this suggestion) the resolution which the app finally chooses to render at. So it does not matter (from the point of view of the application), if you got to this resolution by setting, for example, PiTool at 2.0 and then SteamVR at 20%, or by setting PiTool at 1.0 and then SteamVR at 100% (as long as you stay in 4K resolution limit.)

The only impact I can see PiTool rendering quality may have is the final step (pre-lens warp), but I cannot see how right now, because the source is the image from the app, and it does not directly depend on PiTool settings. It is just that there are people who observe better image in the HMD when setting PiTool high and SteamVR low, compared to have them both balanced.

8 Likes

I found something interesting to this question

edit: risa was faster :smiley:

https://community.openmr.ai/t/pimax-official-1-0-1-103-beta-test-release-for-brainwarp-1-0/14256/560?u=kellerbach

5 Likes

Using the logic that the maximum horizontal resolution is a limit of 4096, am I correct in saying we can increase our resolution by decreasing the FOV setting? My logic is based on the assumption that the FOV settings change the aspect ratio. If this is true, then reducing the FOV would give more head room to have a better vertical resolution at the maximum 4096 resolution.

Am I wrong?

1 Like

I don’t think so. There have been reports of the Small FOV looking better than Normal FOV.

1 Like

Yeah, I tested this out with Elite: Dangerous yesterday. Maxing out the horizontal resolution with Large FOV and parallel projection on leaves you with a horrible image. However, maxing out horizontal resolution with Small FOV and parallel projection through super sampling looks amazing.

3 Likes

Is steam vr a requirement if you’re playing non steam games / simulation?

You will be going to the SteamVR settings often because the recommended SteamVR SS will change with each of the 3 FOV settings, each of the refresh rate settings, and if you have Parallell Proctions on. So I’d say stay at Pitool 1.0.

For instance, if I’m on

-Normal FOV 90 HZ no PP
SteamVR goes to around 60-70% recommended SS(it changes all the time for some reason).

-With PP ON
it goes down to 42%ish.

-A change to 72HZ
will go up to 60%ish again since I dont require as many FPS

When you put Pitool at anything above 1.0 you’ll have less incremental settings in SteamVR SS(1.5 Pitool will put me at 23% SS recommended but the lowest the SteamVR bar goes to is 20%)

You gave me an idea to try Pitool 0.5 to see if I have even more incremental settings(basically more % notches between each big notch in the SteamVR SS). Kinda hard to explain without screenshots lol.

3 Likes

Specifically In ED, you can go past the 4096 limit by using in game “HMD quality” setting, this will take the original (recommended) render target res from OpenVR and multiplies each dimension by “HMD quality” factor, so just do not confuse it with how SteamVR SS scale works, which multiplies the overall pixel count of the image by SteamVR factor.

For example, let say you maxed out Normal FOV settings in SteamVR at 4096 x 3499. Setting HMD quality to 1.1 will make ED render at (4096 * 1.1) x (3499 * 1.1) ~ 4506 x 3849. Of course it only makes sense if you have enough bandwidth out of your GPU.

1 Like

Additionally, Elite offers both its “HMD Quality” setting, which multiplies the rendertarget size, as described, and hands this big picture over to your VR software stack, for prewarping for the lens down the line, etc; and a “Supersampling” one, which also renders as much larger an image, but downsamples it on its own, to the originally recommended size, before handing it over.

This gives us the opportunity to try and compare both approaches, and see how much sharper and dynamic a result is produced by the former, than the latter.

As for the question of diminishing returns; That depends on several factors, both what the physical resolution can ultimately represent, and software matters, including something as simple as how far away any given object is in the game, but one important one concerns how many samples the final warping algorithm (downsampling should be inherently included in this) will take from its large input image, per output pixel. -At some point it will be too costly to read and average every hires input pixel that fills the same space as the lowres output one, and whole pixels will be skipped (this is why mipmaps exists). Depending on the filtering method used, this should begin to occur somewhere not far above x2.0 (…or 400% SteamVR ss), so going far past this point does probably not give very much.

…that said: a bit of that aliasing (skipped samples) is not necessarily a bad thing when using a motion-tracked head-mounted display, because it can allow you to perceive a bit extra detail, as it comes into view from minute head movements. At one point there was even a situation where Valve changed their filtering to a highly optimised method which takes more samples, for a smoother (better antialiased) output, but there was a backlash from mainly Elite Dangerous players, who immediately noticed the softer and less dynamic image, and demanded a switch for reverting to the old algorithm, with its higher aliasing. (This switch should incidently do nothing for the 8k/5k, which has their own lens compensation warp stage, and do not use OpenVR’s one.)

EDIT: For my own, by the way: Normally, I’d say as close to the metal as possible; So for Vive: SteamVR ss; For Rift: Oculus “pixels per pixel display pixel”; For Pimax: Pitool quality; But given OpenVR’s current 4096 ceiling, I’m for the time being sticking with PiTool 1.0, SteamVR 100%, and using any rendertarget size modifier the game has (equivalent to ED “HMD Quality”, not its “supersampling”), or if it doesn’t have any: SteamVR ss up until just below the ceiling.

1 Like

I’m running on PiTool render quality 1.5 (version .91) with SteamVR ss set to 1.0 on most games; if I’m having performance issues I lower the SteamVR ss a bit.

PC specs can be seen here:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/12727666

What do you mean by maxing out HORIZONTAL resolution? How do you do that…?

@Mpmo10 Hey so @PimaxUSA just said in his interview (Pimax's Kevin Henderson | Live Bonus Episode - YouTube) that it’s better to use Pitool than SteamVR for SS. Just FYI.

2 Likes

I can verify that Pitool 2.0 with SteamVR SS lower (like 30-ish%) vs Pitool 1.0 SSS 100-ish% (both equal roughly 2880 horiz res), 2.0 looks better than 1.0 in iRacing and Assetto Corsa.

3 Likes

Since you just mentioned iRacing…They’re implementing Single-Pass stereo, probably in the March update: Log in | iRacing.com™ Motorsport Simulations

1 Like

I saw that :slight_smile: Very excited for the next build.

Do you have a rough idea when he was talking about that? I would be interested to know the reasons for this claim.

@risa2000 Timestamped

1 Like

I noticed that if you want all games compatibility… you can’t go over 1.0 in Pitool. 1.0 is the best option, because 0.5 is too low in some games.

Oculus games, and some steamvr games, start with a lot of quality, and in 1.5 and more in Pitool… it crashes with a system error out of memory.

But if you go to 1.0 in Pitool, and then uses steamvr with the SS that you prefer… then, if the game has a lot of quality at the beginning, steamvr know how to compensate that to not crash the game.

I would not go below Pitool 1.0 (garbage in, garbage out) and from my experience with both 4K and now 5K+ i find that 1.5 works great for me in most games.

1 Like