Findings, Optimized 1.5x Total SR 75Hz - DCS World, Elite Dangerous - Pimax Vision 8kX, 8k+ (Upscaled), 5k+

Pimax Hardware P2: 8kX
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NOT based on final PiTool software - EXPECT IMPROVEMENTS.

  • Full >1.5x Total SR achievable with the Pimax Vision 8kX and demanding VR apps, without dropping in-app quality config.
  • Efficiency is better - equivalent visual quality to the Upscaled 8k+ requires fewer pixels (less load).
  • Pimax Vision 8kX plausibly can be configured to provide better visual quality than 8k+/5k+ on any VR ready computer.
  • Point of diminishing returns for visual quality on the Pimax Vision 8kX is closer to 1.5x vs 2.0x .
  • Relative black levels are excellent, absolute black levels (ie. pitch black night flight) may improve with backlight control.
  • Upscaled 8k+ can achieve much smoother and more realistic visual quality than 5k+, but is not clear as 8kX.
  • VirtualDesktop and Overlays fare particularly better in the Pimax Vision 8kX, being sharp (especially any desktop app with built-in supersampling), rather than blurred (at best) in the 8k+.

All spreadsheets are in ā€˜.odsā€™ format, and may be opened with the Free Open Source Software, LibreOffice.

Only a few numbers are particularly important for end users to use - highlighted by magenta boxes.
Remember to check the tabs at the bottom of spreadsheets - multiple separate pages are used.

Each application has one or more spreadsheets, to accommodate different headsets, and ā€˜fastā€™ profiles which may not require Smart Smoothing.
One spreadsheet at the root of the repository has fully tested parameter sets and load calculations for all major applications.

https://github.com/mirage335/extendedInterface/blob/master/app/DCS/_sequence/000-param-Pimax_5kp.ods

https://github.com/mirage335/extendedInterface/blob/master/app/EliteDangerous/_sequence/000-param-Pimax_5kp.ods

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Complete parameters, for PiTool, SteamVR, NVIDIA Control Panel, and quality configuration for the apps themselves, are included on the spreadsheets. Nevertheless, some of the important parameters are enumerated here, for reference.

Pimax Vision 8kX max res/quality, ā€œfastā€, and Pimax 8k+/5k+ max res/quality parameter sets are provided. Notably, the Pimax 8k+/5k+ parameter sets produce just slightly lower quality results (when used with Upscaler/8k+) than the ā€œfastā€ sets for Pimax Vision 8kX, but require far more rendered pixels.

Near double GPU load can be required to achieve best visual quality in the 8k+. Smart Smoothing can become essential in this case, where it would not be for the 8kX. Elite Dangerous was particularly notable for this behavior.

Upscaled ā€˜8k+/5k+ā€™ profile renders 1.89x more pixels than the ā€˜8kXā€™ ā€œfastā€ profile for Elite Dangerous, the latter being a higher quality image. Arguably, some tradeoffs might bring that down to 1.36x or so, but at noticeable loss of quality below what even the 8k+ or 5k+ are capable of.

DCS World is crystal clear - no fuzziness or SDE at 1.5x Total SR. MSAA x2 can be enabled, preventing shimmering issues. Instrument flying is painless to the point the Hornet mechanical instruments are worth using at times. Smart Smoothing is necessitated by CPU spiking in most situations, so ā€œfastā€ parameters are not really appropriate - it is worth pushing visual quality to max instead.

Elite Dangerous is comfortably razor sharp at 1.5x Total SR. Orbit lines barely have any ā€˜roughnessā€™ to them at all, text is not fuzzy at all. Smart Smoothing is not necessary with ā€œfastā€ parameters, so this is perfect for doing desktop work through overlays while standing by to help team members.

Both DCS World and Elite Dangerous are readable at 8k+/5k+ parameters. Instrument flying hours at a time would get a bit unfomfortable though, and desktop overlays are inevitably blurry with anything other than the 8kX. DCS World Hornet mechanical altimeter and AMPCD text (without map) is readable though a bit fuzzy and lower contrast. Elite Dangerous HUD and objects, are comfortable enough, though again the 8kX can avoid smart smoothing or achieve even sharper results.

Undoubtedly, many members of the DCS World and Elite Dangerous community, as well as some developers, have deeper knowledge of the impact of specific quality config settings. These spreadsheets document quality config settings found to be usable at carefully chosen resolutions.

Many days of retesting went into iteratively determining these optimized parameters for the Pimax Vision 8kX under a variety of relatively severe test cases.

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Optimized 1.5x Total SR - DCS World - Pimax Vision 8kX

  • 1.25x PiTool Render Quality
  • 2700v (3314x2737) SteamVR Settings > Video > Custom Resolution
  • 2700v (3314x2737) SteamVR Settings > Applications > [App] > Custom Resolution
  • 1.2 DCS World Pixel Density
  • High Textures, Traffic, 2x MSAA, MAX Treesā€¦

5760x3240 Equivalent Resolution

Optimized 1.5x Total SR - Elite Dangerous - Pimax Vision 8kX

  • 1.25x PiTool Render Quality
  • 3207v (3823x3274) SteamVR Settings > Video > Custom Resolution
  • 3207v (3823x3274) SteamVR Settings > Applications > [App] > Custom Resolution
  • 1.25 Elite Dangerous HMD Quality
  • 10/10 Model Draw Distance, High Texture, MLAAx4, High Environment, High Material, Ultra Terrain, Ultra Terrain LOD, MAX Terrain Work, Ultra Terrain Material

5699x3206 Equivalent Resolution

Optimized 1.0x Total SR - DCS World - Pimax Vision 8kX (fast)

  • 1.25x PiTool Render Quality
  • 2295v SteamVR Settings > Video > Custom Resolution
  • 2295v SteamVR Settings > Applications > [App] > Custom Resolution
  • 1.0 DCS World Pixel Density

4080x2295 Equivalent Resolution

Optimized 1.0x Total SR - Elite Dangerous - Pimax Vision 8kX (fast)

  • 1.25x PiTool Render Quality
  • 2700v SteamVR Settings > Video > Custom Resolution
  • 2700v SteamVR Settings > Applications > [App] > Custom Resolution
  • 1.00 Elite Dangerous HMD Quality

3840x2160 Equivalent Resolution

Optimized 2.3x Total SR - DCS World - Pimax Vision 8k+ (Upscaled), 5k+

  • 1.75x PiTool Render Quality
  • 2772v (3823x3274) SteamVR Settings > Video > Custom Resolution
  • 2772v (3823x3274) SteamVR Settings > Applications > [App] > Custom Resolution
  • 1.2 DCS World Pixel Density - EDIT: Confirmed, retested.

5912x3326 Equivalent Resolution

Optimized 2.0x Total SR - Elite Dangerous - Pimax Vision 8k+ (Upscaled), 5k+

  • 1.50x PiTool Render Quality
  • 2970v (3823x3274) SteamVR Settings > Video > Custom Resolution
  • 2970v (3823x3274) SteamVR Settings > Applications > [App] > Custom Resolution
  • 1.25 Elite Dangerous HMD Quality

5280x2970 Equivalent Resolution

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Future workā€¦

  • Other VR apps are expected to be much easier/quicker to optimize/test.

Much thanks toā€¦

  • Pimax for early access to a loaner Pimax Vision 8kX for testing, without which substantial improvements would not have been possible.
  • DCS World community, specifically ā€˜Lukas S. / Woltaā€™ for ā€˜DCS: VR Optimization Guideā€™ which drew needed attention to MSAA settings.
32 Likes
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Thanks for this, amazing work!

This surprised meā€¦

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Yeah the 8k+ needs even a bit more supersampling then the OG 8K to get a clean picture(but then itā€™s better also with barely SDE). With my gtx1080TI it hardly manages to get half the framerate in ED(36fps) so iā€™m happy to hear the 8KX will do better.

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@jeroen I think you misunderstand. The physical resolution of the 8k+, original 8k, 5k+, etc, is 1440 vertical pixels. Any headset with that resolution or less will need more supersampling to minimize chunkiness of text and such. That an older version of the 8k+ needed even more supersampling to get a ā€˜clean pictureā€™ is beside the point.

What does matter, is it is entirely reasonable to get an 8kX now, then upgrade to a new GPU when the 3000 series becomes available, assuming that upgrade is actually meaningfully better than a 2080 Ti.

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i do understand, but itā€™s a point for me as my gtx 1080TI was at itā€™s limits with the old 8k and now i need a bit more performance, itā€™s just the treshhold for me where games donā€™t run as fluid.
For the 8k+ i would recommend an gtx2080TI as a minimum for playing demanding games and make the HMD shine, good advice btw, iā€™m saving already for a 3080(TI)

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The fourth and last link are not correct, Matthew (@mirage335). (404)
Update: All OK now.:+1:

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Even with ideal optics/displays, the 5k+/8k+/etc, requires more rendered pixels to make better use of a physically lower resolution display.

Rendering both 8kX and 5k+/8k+/etc at 2160v pixels will cost the same computationally, but the 8k+ at 1.5 Total SR will look chunkier and blurrier due to interpolation (ie. rendered pixels ā€˜sharingā€™ real pixels).

Qualitatively, IMHO, 8k+ needs ~2.0x Total SR, accounting for the point of diminishing returns and large object readability (see note). But letā€™s look at 1.75x Total SR as well to be conservative.

5k+/8k+/etc (2560x1440) * Total SR
DIVIDED BY
8kX (3840x2160)

((2560x1.50)x(1440x1.50)) / (3840x2160) = 1
((2560x1.75)x(1440x1.75)) / (3840x2160) = 1.3611111
((2560x2.00)x(1440x2.00)) / (3840x2160) = 1.9961 (~2x more rendered pixels)

So, it adds up, if GPU load is scaling near linearly with pixel count. Thus far, none of my test cases have shown pixels costing MORE than this.

A few conclusions can reasonably be drawn from this.

  1. Higher quality displays require fewer rendered pixels to achieve better visual quality.
  2. Many more rendered pixels are available to be fed when they do not linearly impose more computational expense.

If there was ever any doubt it is better to have a Pimax Vision 8kX, that should be gone now.

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ā€¦ Separately, it is becoming evident that the Pimax Vision 8kX is approaching the diffraction limit of ideal human eyesight based on a ~1cm diameter lens. Well matched resolution is generally good for performance in optics.

note
Donā€™t fool yourself. On the upside, the 8k+ at high supersampling may make some text much more comfortable than the old 5k+, and bring some realism to 3D objects. However, there are serious limitations. Sufficiently fine print will not be readable, text will never be sharp, colors will be washed out by blurriness, and as illustrated above, a lot of rendering will be wasted even to make things look that good. A particularly good example is VirtualDesktop - fine high contrast text is absolutely sharp on the 8kX, but not on the 8k+ at any supersampling.

My opinion is that the 8k+ is probably fine for ā€˜room-scaleā€™ VR gaming, but the 8kX is really needed for apps with lots of text to read.

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only the first conclusion contradicts my experience, the 8k+ needs more SS then my OG 8k to get the same clarity.
Og 8k i could get away with a basic total SS of 35xx x 30xx
8k+ my basic total SS now is 38xx x 32xx

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@jeroen
It dosnt make sense to me - you basicly saying that 2 subpixels LCD have more clarity than full RGB matrix with 3 subpixels and 5.5 inch have more clarity than 5-inch with the same resolutionsā€¦ Weird.
The only reasons for that is software & settings

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What jeroen is saying could make sense for some very specific situations - ie some magic in the old upscaler that aligns well with certain textures and objects at specific angles.

Or the perceived differences could be due to differences in eyesight.

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I have tought about it for some time exactly taken your points taken into account, because it;s weird for me also.
There are two things, a different upscaler like Matthew mentions. And it could well be the algorithm still needs to be optimized as itā€™s fairly new.
Like the Old 8k the clarity did improve significant over time.
And im starting to think, the diamond pixel layout of the old panels give a higher percieved sharpness in this high resolution. The gaps between the pixels are bigger but at this resolution the pixels are ultra fine. Also maybe RGB tends to smear more with an upscaler?

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But why @Mr_Teatime says that for him clarity is improved and he is also orginal 8k owner ?

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curious about that, interesting to know does he mean sharpness by that and nothing else?
And does he mean clarity up close or further away?
I find objects close by to be clear but if itā€™s more then 5 meters away it gets blurry and a bit alliased.

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do you have nvidia drivers with default setting or you did some changes there ?

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i changed a lot there, shall i do a screenshot?

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@jeroen Are you viewing small text on these headsets at high supersampling? Because if not, that would explain why you may be getting different results. In particular, 3D objects might show less aliasing most of the time with the diamond layout. I can easily imagine shimmerlng/pixelation would be hidden somewhat.

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Thanks for the detailed explanation :+1:

While Iā€™m totally on board with supersampling being more computationally expensive than native, I didnā€™t think it could double the GPU cost for the 8K+ to get close. But as they say, the numbers donā€™t lieā€¦

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yes i do big screen 200%, compositor for steamvr 2X, but i was not reffering to text specificly, more like Project cars 2 and skyrim are blurry a few meters away more then my old 8k. I think you are right about the panels.

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Yata here my settings

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1712Ɨ772 195 KB
2
2619Ɨ669 157 KB

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for PC 2 to get distance sharpness it was neccesary to modify ini file and add: ( maybe you have it and now is gone)

prop name=ā€œSharpeningStrengthā€ sharpeningstrength=ā€œ1.100000ā€ />
prop name=ā€œSharpeningClampā€ sharpeningclamp=ā€œ0.045000ā€ />
prop name=ā€œOffsetBiasā€ offsetbias=ā€œ4.000000ā€ />

4 Likes