75 Hz is max in native mode. Smart smoothing ON would then be 37.5 Hz doubled. One of the little flaws of the 8KX and one of the reasons I sold it 
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more than 75Hz / native are technically possible. in … hmm … nearly two years
All other headsets work the same way.
Your headset is refreshing at 75hz in native resolution smart smoothing mode with 37 normal frames and 37 synthetic frames.
But it reduces the required performance from 75fps to 37fps.
The panels can also do up to 118hz if you are happy to run in upscaled mode. And that would be 59 normal frames and 59 synthetic frames if you enabled smart smoothing.
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One Pimax representative or other stated a while ago that the originally proposed frame interleaving feature, from the kicktarter campaign, has been dropped. “Smart Smoothing” is now an umbrella term for all the various trixy bits in the runtime.(EDIT-the-day-after: …ok, “Brainwarp” was the buzzword - not smart smoothing… -None the less… :7)
EDIT: On a side note; I wonder why we are yet to see an optical video connector standard, utilised in all graphics cards and monitors… How long has toslink been a thing for audio? :7
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technically that layer would be PE. But Its useful and not annoying.
I noticed this yesterday but I didn’t know it was a bug, weird.
Yup. I was saying before that the options Pimax gives you are a pro not a con like some haters would have you believe,
I have been using the HP exclusively for the last week and I am going to start switching back and forth between the two next week.
I am happy to say that it seems the HP may not stand a chance. The 8KX is winning on every level so far. I have discovered a whole bunch of little things that nobody seems to have mentioned about the G2 that is going to make it very easy for me to return it.
So stay tuned … 
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While I agree with most of your points. Some of them could easily go both ways. (Seen as a pro or a con depending on your point of View)
examples
You might not want to though since things such as eye tracking don’t quite work.
You will need them because the SMAS sucks
see above
Reliance on Pimax for future VR support. 
Its all in good humour though. My G2 trial / comparison with the 8KX is going in the best way possible so far and the G2 is woefully inadequate.
I think the problem with all of the glowing G2 reviews pre launch and the claims that the G2 is the best visuals you can get in a consumer headset are all missing one thing. None of them have tried the 8KX.
Which begs the question… when is the marketing push going to happen?
Truth is though that the Index being $500 (disregarding controllers and basestations because its the same for both) and $1300 for the 8KX is a little much if the 8KX was say $1000 it would turn alot of heads.
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I think the big marketing push should come when they have:
- Completed controllers which work well with no stuttering or hiccups in tracking.
- Eyetracking and Handtracking that both work at the same time without needing a PC tether cable
- Wireless module released which works well and is at least the same quality as virtual desktop ideally better than.
- New lenses on a 8KX refresh headset which can do 90hz-120hz, using HDMI 2.1 which the current RTX GPUs and AMD GPUs both have.
- Firmware updates to hardware and software updates to PE to ensure its stable and working well.
- Better communication, better support and better consistency when it comes to RMA policies.
- When Pimax has enough workers and parts to ensure that they can meet the demands of orders and not fall behind months in delivering pre orders like has been done in the past, when people trust ordering from Pimax.com that they will get their product in 1-2 weeks from the date of purchase, with better logistics to ensure tracking numbers are always sent to customers when products are sent and making sure packages are sent 1-2 days working days after purchase maximum. And no pre orders this time.
When Pimax has all of the above down pat, then they should push for marketing a new headset refresh, 8KX with new lenses with better clarity and 120hz native capability with HDMI 2.1, but with the whole package, controllers, ligjthouses, wireless, working hand tracking and eyetracking, stable software, stable hardware and good support. Not before then, because it will go to waste as people will still have concerns about them.
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you are absolutely correct here. And you are not the only reviewer to mention it. I noticed that in dead center its sharp and crisp but as soon as you look even a little away from center it turns into a Samsung Odyssey Plus.
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You’re right. The problem is nothing is actually stopping reviewers from buying it themselves and reviewing it right now. (Except for contempt)
Anyway when this stuff is all ready… if they wait that long. Im afraid the competition may have caught up by then or 8KX will be old news and Pimax will be looking ahead again. (As they always do)
If they do a marketing push halfway through 2021 for the 8kx it would have to be seen as some sort of relaunch.
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Well, let’s give Pimax the benefit of the doubt and say they will have in 2021:
- The parts and workers they need to keep up with orders.
- Better synergy and streamlining of work to make their support more consistent and policies more consistent, with better logistics to ensure tracking numbers are always sent to customers when products are sent and making sure packages are sent 1-2 days working days after purchase maximum.
- They have stable software and hardware which is hopefully only going to get better by 2021, if they continue putting as much attention and dedication into software as they have recently.
- Eyetracking supposedly works at 100hz in USB2 mode on the new pitool beta. Does it work with handtracking at the same time? Yet to be seen.
So the primary things which need to be done are
- Finishing the controllers which are apparently close to finished and reportedly will be shown at CES 2021
- Finishing wireless, which had an ETA for Q4 2020/2021.
- Redesigning lenses for the 8KX G2 refresh to fix the 8KX eyestrain problem some people have reported, which should take them around 6 months going by how long it took for the original 8K to come out of prototyping
- Waiting for a new bridge chip which can deliver USB3 power to two ports for eyetracking and Handtracking at the same time, which has a HDMI 2.1 output instead of a DP 1.4 output, which might take 6 months to a year if not longer to come out if there isn’t one available already.
Hopefully by the time the bridge chip is available, Pimax can finish the controllers which are almost done, the wireless module and redesign their lenses, and in the meantime focus on improving synergy of workers, consistency of policy, ensuring they have enough workers and parts to meet demand and to ship orders in a reasonable time, better logistics to ensure tracking numbers are always sent to customers when products are sent, and to make sure their hardware and software is more reliable and more stable.
My point is it’s not like this list isn’t stuff Pimax hasn’t been doing, it shouldn’t take that long for them to finish it and it wouldn’t be right to say that Pimax hasn’t improved or isn’t working on those things on that list, they should just have it all done before marketing a new headset or before marketing at all.
Honestly I’m most worried about Pimax’s support and logistics improving as they haven’t had a good track record, but I’m hopeful that they will work out their logistics and support disorganisation.
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So if you placed the G2 and 8KX lenses next to each other, how would you compare them, for:
- size of sweet spot
- quality of vision outside the sweet spot
- internal reflections
- light flare or bloom
- chromatic aberration
- etc?
BTW thanks very much for this - it is making me feel better about having taken the gamble on Pimax.
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If I may slide in a side question for Kevin here…:
We already know that the throughput of the expansion port at the bottom of the device is insufficient for the eyetracking module at full clip, necessitating adding a separate USB cable for that accessory,
What about the handtracking module, which is built for that position, though – does the throughput suffice for that, without compromise, and if it does not: Can the module be configured to reroute its traffic from the integrated module port, to the port on its side, so that one can strap yet another USB cable for it, to the growing trunk between the headset and the host computer?
I already have to choose either headset speaker audio, or microphone, because there is apparently a USB resource shortage somewhere along the line, for some reason (EDIT: This, with a dedicated, discrete,.high speed USB PCI card, which serves only the HMD)… :7
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Sorry about the mishmash of items but here are some answers and comments on items over the last few pages -
On the SMAS - There is a backstory to it but I do think it serves the purpose the team planned for it. It’s quite unobtrusive, light and is only slightly larger than just a simple plastic cap that we considered to allow easy headphone use. Larger assemblies like DMAS and KDMAS prevent such use. SMAS gives you the option of attaching headphones or just plug and go with integrated audio.
On KDMAS and DMAS - on the ear and over the ear options. KDMAS hardware was dictated by the best solution we could come up with that is compatible with our original headsets. When it’s dialed-in it’s great. The DMAS is designed to be the flagship audio solution and also utilizes the expanded audio capabilities of the + and X. We hope 3rd parties follow through and produce even more options.
On 3 audio options - I’ve always been a fan of low/medium/high options on any offering.
On Eye and Hand tracking - we will continue to improve these via firmware and software updates together with our partners.
On the new 100Hz ET software - highly suggested those who have ET give this a shot when we release the beta soon. The 8KX bottom port is usb3 but there are power draw limitations on accessories that use it. The latest solution gives some of the best of both worlds but nothing will beat connecting the ET directly to your USB 3 port on your PC.
On showing the Sword controllers at CES - hopefully we can, 50/50 shot imho. If not, shortly after.
On ongoing improvements to existing hardware via software/firmware, good chance to see some of this at CES time. Because VR is all we do we will continue to release tangible updates whenever technically possible.
On reviewers getting review copies - trying to put our best foot forward and not shoot it as occurred previously. Several new internal programs revolve around this. Days of reviewers receiving poorly thought out review samples should be in the past.
On marketing push - sales in vr industry increasing, gaming software as well. This has continued to increase our own sales volumes which puts a strain on inventory levels available for special promotions. We’ve steadily increased availability so hopefully we can produce ahead of the curve and have some significant marketing. We certainly don’t want to re-enter long shipping wait situations again.
On the question if there is any technical compromise on the hand tracking module due to usb, engineers say no compromise. There is running room there though via firmware updates that could run into bandwidth limits at some point where a usb3 version would be useful.
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As the X only has one USB port (bottom one) as opposed to the two ports on any other Pimax 5K/8K model, it’s not possible to connect both the HT and ET module at the same time without using an extra cable from the PC to the ET module as the HT module attaches directly to the bottom USB port (it sits flush to the headset).
They could make a USB hub module/adapter that had the same form as the HT module which attached to the bottom like the HT module does which the HT module could then be attached to. On the left side of the module they could place a USB-C port (or one on each side).
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Thanks - looking forward to trying my handtracking module to its full capabilities, when it arrives.
Hope you don’t mind a follow-up question…
Do we have any idea what they are anticipating, that could gobble up what margins remain?
New modules? Data from existing sensors not currently transmitted, or transmitted at reduced rate?
…or did you just mean the possibility of them coming to discover they were being overly optimistic and having to dial back back a bit, for the sake of stability, or more on-device processing sapping cycles?
I do recall there was a thread, some while back, where somebody had analysed the tracking data that SteamVR receives, and had noticed that it was incomplete - apparently with either the headset or piserver consistently substituting null values in some fields – Don’t recall whether there was also something about the IMU/lighthouse sensor sampling rate…
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The problem you are having is that your 70 ipd is out of the range of the headset. Before I did my ipd mod I had the same problem. After modding it the problem is solved. Really s*cks that hp chose to go with such narrow ipd range and didn’t make an eye relief system but it is what it is…
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many users have this Lens problem. with and without mod.
hmm…they were “close to finished” last year too
I would actually hope they would either tool a new housing or make this bridge chip smaller so that you get 2 usb-c ports as the 5k+ because no matter how good the bridge chip is its meaningless if you can only plug one thing in at a time.
If they did go to the trouble of making a new housing they should go all out and make it look cooler. To assist with a rebrand/relaunch of the 8kX
Also they should have already modified the gasket to have the pre cut hole for eyetracking the second they realized it.
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This goes for me personally as everyone here will tell you differently.
I am 95% satisfied with the Pimax lenses. Especially now that i’ve experienced the G2 for myself.
My ipd is 70mm and I will say that after adjusting the ipd to around 67-68 I sharp spot of the Pimax lenses are the entire size of the G2 lens.
Where the G2 its probably about the size of a dime.
During gameplay when not reading text, it’s not as noticible, but if you are reading anything regardless of size or if you stop and lock your eyes on sonething away from center and then rotate your head to get it into the middle you will clearly see the sharpening of the object as it enters the center.
It’s like fixed foveated rendering minus the framerate benefits.
Discovering this yesterday was honestly a deal breaker for me. This headaet has ONE thing going for it and this messes that up for me.
Chromatic abberation:
All if the above is with or without the fov mod by removing the gasket and using a thick VR cover so my eyelashes are almost touching the lens.
When in FOV mod mode. You can see alot more vertically. HOWEVER for me looking down you can clearly see the R G B separation. Its pretty bad actually. Not an issue with the gasket on. No such issue on the 8KX for me.
Eye Strain:
I have no eyestrain or lack of depth on the Pimax its basically great. Something about the G2’s lenses though, I haven’t quite put my finger on it yet …but while its on It feels a little like the lenses are misaligned to my eyes kind of slightly blurry or cross eyed its not as bad as it sounds but its slightly uncomfortable. Less noticible when not trying to read.
HLA looks stunning but so does the 8KX i feel like it would be a tie except for the FOVeated thing happening on the G2. Even with that whe playing HLA its kike looking through a window. I cannot oerceive the screen.
Reflections and bloom:
No reflections or blooming on either. But if you put the eyetracking on the 8kx its reflection city ( can be solved by padding the sides of the foam)
One thing I thought i’d debunk. The g2 black levels are good. Great even. But I have a couple of dark areas in HLA and AW i use for testing this and it’s still obviously an LCD.
Technolust is a great game to test as well for black levels and audio. Now that i’ve tried these Index speakers I will say that while they are good. They dont offer the ear-gasmic experience some people say.
I still prefer the sound of a good pair of headphones. The CV1 has the best sounding audio to date. What I will say about the index headphones is what they lack in “oomph” it makes uo for slightly with convincing spacial audio.
There are better options for playing games with audio your meant to rock to.
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Yeah well , if I have to do all of that to get the G2 usuable I may as well stick with Pimax as the rewards are MUCH greater.
Besides im only sampling this headset while im in the return window. Hard-Mods are out of the question.
EDIT: The quest 2 is nowhere as bad as the G2 in this regard. The lenses do not exhibit the dime sized sweet spot. Pretty sure the quest 2 has better lenses.
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