Will the 12K still be cutting edge by the time it launches?

Pimax Hardware Pimax Discussion
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FOV is just as important as visual fidelity and I can attest to that since I spent hours upon hours trying to get AMS2 to run @90fps and at FOV 150 with great visual but unable to attain it without sacrificing other graphical features. I had to reduce FOV to 120 to get the stunning visual @90fps. So it forces me to make a choice…play with a reduce FOV to get stunning visual or sacrifice visual for wider FOV. I choose to lower the FOV because high graphic fidelity is needed to minimize eye strain. Yes, this is even with EVGA RTX3090 Ultra.

With that said, I would not be surprise if not many games are able to take advantage of the wide FOV in 12K. It would be great if DFR works with all games though. Definitely help.

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I think the issue is the tracking. PSVR1 was relatively easy to get working as it was just a webcam tracking lights. PSVR2 would require taking the data from the camera feeds and writing SLAM tracking from the ground up (as that would be computed on the PS5). Eye tracking would be out the window too.

The most likely solution is if they can get a video signal fed through to the panels in the PSVR2 and then people just stick on a vive tracker and using wands/knuckles as controllers. Basically turn it into a lighthouse tracked headset, without eye tracking.

Hopefully Sony decides to let the hardware work with PC. I am very sceptical but I do see it is as slight possible for the following reasons:

  • They are working with valve and porting Alyx to PS5
  • The writing is on the wall for consoles imo (cloud computing with eventually replace them, subscription service models will take over)
  • Sony see how huge spatial computing will be and want to be a big player in being hardware providers (pure speculation on my part)

I think it would be crazy for Sony to not try and become a dominant player in the VR space in general. Restricting themselves to just the playstation platform is not the way to do it.

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Oh perfect point! - I should point out that the 12k is both aspherical and simple lenses - hybrid. Simple on the outside and aspherical on the inside. Kevin Henderson basically said: why do you want aspherical lenses? To reduce god rays, which are formed in the center of the vision else they get cast out entirely. Then they are simple toward the edge. Thats pleasing and worries me though. The transition from aspherical to simple may in itself cause distortion I would think (opinion). I’ll be excited to see! Literally)

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HDR is really about three things: color accuracy, really bright colors, and clear details in really dark scenes; the combination which creates great contrast. Samsung TVs and new Apple iPad Pros use QLED, it gives you the super bright bright colors, while OLED gives you great black levels and the details in dim scenes, but can’t get as bright. I’m a big fan of bright HDR, and it makes me very happy the 12K is going to have it. It means when playing driving games, the brake lights of other cars will look bright and realistic, lightning can actually blind you, ice and snow will really shine in the sunlight (really, play the intro to the second new Tomb Raider game, that starts out in the mountains - the HDR is beautiful).

You won’t get pitch black in outer space, and if a game is made for OLED its blacks will look grey (but only usually games made for OLED panels, like the Star Wars Quest 1 game). So lack of OLED can suck if you really like space games (but then, Elite Dangerous is dropping VR support in their new expansion).

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You really can’t compare oled in vr to oled with a tv. It’s quite a different thing.

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just go for oled with the new pimax hmds , oled has such an immersion , like I said i prefer the pimax xr to the varjo aero in some games ( walking dead saints and sinner ) which is crazy if you think about it :smiley:

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I recently found myself kind of confused today regarding the 12k and its led situation.

The 12K is still and lcd (QLED) with mini led back lighting for Local Area dimming, which should improve black levels.

The Varjo Aero site says it has mini led display. So is the Aero OLED? or is it similar to the 12K?

Are the Aero’s blacks legit blacks or does it suffer the same problem that LCD’s have today.

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To my understanding, the Aero does use the same display technology. Or to be more accurate, the Aero’s hardware display supports local dimming, but last I heard the Aero’s software does not. According to Varjo there were problems with artifacts caused by it.

Keep in mind that local dimming means that it can change the backlight level for fixed groups of pixels. This can be very effective for largely static images, but it presents challenges for images in motion. In particular, what do you do when bright objects and dark objects move into the same area? You’re going to have to blow out one or the other. Yet in the previous frame, both of them were within the contrast range because they were previously in different areas that could have different backlight levels. But now they’ve moved to the same area and have to share a single backlight level.

It seems to me like there could be significant limitations there as to how much it can practically increase the contrast range without causing weird artifacts.

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Damm… still no oled blacks… a big miss i think…

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This is exactly my fear. my pc monitor from Samsung and my qled tv both have local dimming , and you can actually tell where the backlight is on vs off in darkscenes .

Like that screensaver with the word that bounces around. Its like having a spotlight following an actor as he moves across the stage.

it doesn’t look good.

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The Aero’s blacks aren’t true blacks but they don’t bother me. I don’t really play games with dark scenes in them, no Elite/RE/night time simming etc

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I know a ton of people are worried about Pimax Qled 12k not having OLED contrast, and being an LCD, but there is some stuff the engineering team and forum members should consider.

Since the Backlight is supposed to be “HDR” and because 12k has local dimming, it can be very useful for backlight strobing. Good strobing will halve overall brightness, but it also increases percieved contrast closer to the max nativebof the panel, say 100000:1. Because in a stobed back light the backlight is off most of the time mimicking an old style Raster scan impulse driven display like a crt.

Lets say that the local dimming algorithm isn’t that great, or isn’t capable of dramatically improving picture contrast without blooming or artifacting like was mentioned with Aero.

Even if that were the case, tuning the LCD for good backlight strobing can make excellent use of the fald backlight for improved contrast and also increased motion clarity. You can also hide slow pixel transition times in darkness. That really improves picture quality on an LCD display. Just read all the articles on blurbusters.com

I would recommend, read insist that pimax should get in touch immediately with Mark Rejhon from blurbusters.com and have him help you strobe tune your LCD.

Not that I’m implying that pimax won’t have a good handle on its FALD algorithm, but let’s say it isn’t perfect, the new characteristics of this display could still be very useful for overall improving the headset picture quality.

Let’s say that the backlight can hit 350-400 nits for full screen white. Let’s say that’ the highlights could hit 800 nits in 1 dot.

If you optimized the backlight to strobe using that 800 nit flash, you could get very high motion clarity, still get good brightness of about 100 nits, and the contrast would be excellent because the backlight is off most of the time.

I have my 144 HZ LCD overclocked and strobe tuned at 165hz and with that I have top to bottom image clarity even while an image is panning at 1200 pixels per second on blur Buster’s test UFO.

My monitor is not HDR cable like this VR LCD is, so if pimax does this right, they could give us a very high-quality picture with this thing’s fancy backlight, even if the local dimming wasn’t perfect.

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Good strobing makes a huge difference to motion clarity. They should absolutely work with Blur Busters if possible.

I’m convinced the 8KX feels much more fluid to me than the 5K+, even down at 60hz because of proper strobing on the different panels.

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If 12K will support 90Hz then entire simracing community will buy it.
Arpara got 32PPD but no 90Hz so it’s useless, at least from what I read on reddit and iRacing forum. And I agree, I don’t play anything else than iRacing and I don’t mind to spend $3k for VR but I need high res and 90Hz. Going 180mph you can very easily see the difference in refresh rate.

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