Version 3 prototype review

Pimax 8K Series
102

Thanks for the info @evertec, really appreciate it. On another note, does anyone know how I can artificially limit the refresh rate on my VIVE so I can see what 75hz feels like when its consistent? Will keep looking into this myself if no one has any idea.

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103

Dear all,
Sorry for the later response since it’s sunday evening in China.
Recently, our hardware core team are focusing on building new V4 prototype. So we ask our Co-CEO lead the NYVR roadshow and the representatives are all software background. But the refresh rate feature mainly relates to hardware and firmware. Their explaination might be insuffient or inaccurate. Actually It’s their first trip to USA, plus some language or culture barrier between our representatives and users. So there’s some misunderstanding. let’s try to reveal more details regarding the refresh rate.

  1. Without “brain-warp”
    Our HW system support 90Hz, including the bandwidth of DP \processor\ driver IC. As you know, our orinigal solution is 2HDMI. And then we moved to 1DP. Big difference between these two solutions. The games can run at 90Hz on previous solution. But not so stable, sometime we have to spend ~1 hour to set up the demo kit. Unfortunately, the stability of high rate (>85Hz) is a little bit worse in the new DP solution in V3 prototype. So we decide to lower the refresh rate to 75Hz for the new public demos. And do more internal test from 75Hz to 85Hz. Up to now, the 82Hz is pass the initial test standard. And now we’re try to optimze on 85Hz. then we will do more compatibility and stability test. Since 90Hz is the upper limit of the whole system. Several hardware reasons might make the refresh rate drop: the clock rate, cable length, display adapter FPC, EMI desense issue. Contact impedance from different Video Card’s DP connectors …

    The stability is much important，because our HMD should work out of box in thousands of computes condition. So we need do more optimzation in HW design and more compatible test. Then we can give a clear answer.

  2. With “Brain-warp”
    The refresh rate is important to VR experience, meanwhile it is challenging to system architecture. That’s why Pimax will bring Brain-warp to our consumers. This technology will definitely double the refresh rate to get much less MTP.
    All games can run 120Hz-180Hz if your GPU could support. You can enable or disable the Brain-warp function after the performance test when you get the HMD.
    If you enable brain warp feature, you don’t need care about 5Hz or 8Hz drop of the refresh rate.

  3. MTP = senor reponse time+ GPU rendering time + 1/refresh rate + display switch time
    The refresh rete is one fact of the MTP. Not all facts. There’re many other solutions could get good MTP performance. Including ATW/ASW/BrainWarp/…

  4. We will update the latest risks analysis of whole project in two days. So this will allow our backers do their own assessment on the risks and have final chance to make decision before the kickstarter compaign end.

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104

Awesome response with the much needed details for folks to understand better.

Thanks :beers::sunglasses::+1::sparkles:

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105

I was the one who asked VRKommando for that SteamVR settings image, and I’ve even asked for it on this forum and the Kickstarter page. I should have realized something was wrong when I got ZERO responses from anyone.

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@evertec

Apart from the whole refresh rate scandal did you get a good look at the new IPD adjustment mechanism? Because that was supposed to be the big feature of the new prototype

Or was that not working?

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107

Thanks for explaining that, glad to hear that you only lowered the refresh rate to stabilize the demonstration.

108

I wonder it is posible to use asynch. rep. instead ?

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I think from pimax’s reply that its more along the lines of what i described.

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honestly i think their own system will blow async out of the water if it works.

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111

Thank you! Stay Honest and upfront about your problems and the majority of folks will stick by your side.

112

This definitely seems to have been a misunderstanding lol.

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thank you for the clear response. i will definitely be keeping my preorder now.

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It was working to move the lenses but they said the pre-warped distortion parameters weren’t finished for every ipd setting so they encouraged us to leave it on the default, 63mm I think it was

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@PimaxVR

Ok, so you’re right, assuming BrainWarp works the way you claim it does, the difference between 120hz and 180hz won’t be a massive deal. But this means you are banking EVERYTHING on BrainWarp.

You need to demo BrainWarp to people like yesterday…

116

will BrainWarp be ready for a January delivery?

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117

My Oculus DK2 worked at 75Hz and was fine for me. When Vive and Oculus switched to 90Hz I wasn’t so happy, more power required without visible benefits for me. I hope Pimax solves the technical problems for everyone’s happiness, but I would be happy if I could set my own refresh rate limit, and it wouldn’t be greater than 80Hz anyway. Thank you for bravely working on the VR future

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Okay with PiMax using there own render steamvr’s ss will not affect the rendering. PiMax has its own render multiplier.

Hope this answer helps.

119

Is this true? Interesting, I hope we can get advanced VR settings integration if that is the case- it’s really useful for changing supersampling settings on the fly.

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@PIMAX The key thing is not the technical details, its the fact that your representatives lied in the face of the people at the demonstrations about the refreshrate, that makes me wonder which else of all these promises about the hardware that are true and which are false. The absolutely best way to restore trust and confidence in the company is to bring the latest version of the hardware to the Tested-team and make sure u run it on a sufficiently strong desktop computer, preferrably not your computer but one that they have.

Try to be more transparent about progress made

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121

I still don’t get how brainwarp works.
The goal is to reduce latency from action (e.g. turning the head) to reaction (seeing the image that corresponds to this head position), right?
If the GPU calculates 2*75 images (alternatingly shown either to the left or right eye at 150 Hz) then I understand how you might get that illusion. But then GPU would really have to calculate a new image (with geometry pass and stuff) so each image really contains the reaction to the latest action (1/150s) and not the reaction to the action two images (1/75s) before. So wouldn’t that be like calculating 150 images per second for a non-VR game? Or would there still be anything that can be shared between the calculations between the two eyes? (I could imagine one could spare GPU by only changing the viewport so the head position updates and keeping the world/creatures the same for 1/75s, so the geometry and physics stuff could be shared between eye calculations - but that would only work if the games would be specifically adapted, right?)

If it not possible to share stuff between eye calculations and it is really like running a non-VR game in 1440p resolution (+probably some supersamplting margin) at 150 Hz or even 180 Hz - then I don’t understand how a “poor old” 1070 will be able to handle that. Wouldn’t that even be a challenge for a 1080 TI?

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